Kevin Rose Failing Social Media 101 Miserably

Little girl getting pants by DiggOf course, I’m not talking about that 150 million dollar evaluation floating around, nor the rumours that Digg will be scooped up by Fox any minute to turn it into a MySpace Widget.

No — I’m referring to the latest algorithm change over at Digg.

I’ve been following the goings on over at Digg for a little while (shameless promo: refresh yourselves with a short history of Digg over here), and what never astounds me to this day, even with the latest changes and outrage on behalf of its top diggers is how silent Kevin Rose is.

[and of course I use the name "Kevin Rose" to represent Kevin Rose, and/or any other individuals who are responsible for the day to day goings on at Digg who make up Kevin Rose]

I recognize the conundrum he and Digg is in: how to make Digg as accessible as possible to newer and casual Diggers, while trying to maintain the core community that has supported you for so long.

But surely it doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game; surely there must be a way to make things more inclusive, not less.

And yet, that’s what the elite Digg community feels.

Check out this open letter to Kevin Rose from said Community:

Why then, we wonder, does Digg continue to snub its most prolific community members, rather than reward or even encourage them? With the latest change in Digg’s promotion algorithm, it seems that the message you are sending to the site’s most active users is that its time for them to quit.

I don’t want to debate the merits of the algo change because plenty of people have done a good job already.

What is worth mentioning, however, because it seems lost as part of the discussion is how absolutely apalling the lack of any conversation there is on behalf of Kevin Rose.

It seems like the “first principles” of social media — before web applications, AJAX, blogging, and everything (yes, even before Authenticity and Transparency) — are based on conversations: the give and take between two parties.

And based on the utter silence, Kevin Rose deserves a failing grade.

For a website that is meant to be the poster child of the Web2.0, you would expect the management to walk the walk – be as engaged as possible with its community to help improve the community and the site.

The reality, however, is that the Digg Overlords may here the squeaks of their puny serfs, but doesn’t engage anyone at anytime about their opinion on anything. KRo and Co. ultimately make decisions unilaterally and for the best interests of Digg at large, often regardless of what the current opinion is.

Consider this:

* Kevin Rose rarely, if ever participates in the comments section of Digg.

* The Digg Blog is a blog in name only; there are no comments, so there’s no way to provide feedback, nor any way (conveniently) of KRo (or the author) to have to respond to any feedback.

* In an interview surrounding the last debacle which forced an early algo update in September, I’ve heard that the interview was setup and through Digg’s PR firm, which tried to massage the interview most favourably in Digg’s favour.

* In conversations I’ve had with some elite Diggers, Kevin Rose (or the management) has never approached them for talks about their opinions on Digg, upcoming changes, previous changes, or really, anything.

* It seems like the only time you get a response is by emailing them — but they’ll respond at their leisure, and sometimes only at the behest of someone with Juice (like Leo Laporte).

At the end of the day, some of the biggest or controversial figures in the blogosphere, such as Mike Arrington, Jason Calacanis, or Richard Edelman may or may not be guilty of many things, but one thing they’re all great at is carrying on the conversation in some for or another.

Calacanis has his own blog which is very active; Richard Edelman answers his email personally; Mike Arrington contributes to his own comments regularly.

Where’s Kevin “Dark-Tipper” Rose in all of this?

Silent.

I can only hazard a guess as to why this is; could he be caught up in other online ventures, stretching himself so thin he can’t find the time to personally address the community which brought him the fame and/or notoriety he now enjoys?

Or, could VC advisors be having a heavy hand in exactly what he says, who he says it to, and how he says it?

I can only speculate what the reason really is — and I hope its something like the above.

Because sometimes, silence could also be interpreted as gross condescension and contempt.

Up until now, I always held out that Kevin Rose was perhaps misunderstood, perhaps had his reasons for doing what he does …
Now, I’m not so sure.

18 Comments

  1. Posted November 5, 2006 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure Kevin has done a few blog interviews. I don’t have the link, but I remember it was very interesting reading.

  2. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I’ve seen them too. As I said — most seem to be arranged by the PR team and none of the blogs seem to be asking the tough questions.

  3. Posted November 5, 2006 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    This is interesting — both Kevin Rose’s lack of response and the underlying issue.

    I think you’re unlikely to get hard answers from Kevin Rose about this. It would be difficult to address the issues without giving away the factors that enter into the promotion algorithm. And even if he did address it head-on, it wouldn’t quell the controversy, because the only thing that would do that would be a return to the old formula.

    THe underlying issue is interesting to me, since it was Kevin himself who encourage the “group digg”, if you will. The entire structure of the site would be completely democratic if there were no linking of profiles as “friends”. Creating a “friends” network guarantees a shift from “one man, one vote” to “one group, one vote and the biggest group is heard the loudest”. In other words, the shift goes from the individual to the collective wisdom of the ORGANIZED crowd as opposed to the natural gathering of like-minded individuals.

    Flickr recently did the same thing with their Interestingness algorithm, and people who are some of the most brilliant and prolific Flickr photogs found themselves completely knocked out of the Interestingness collections for days where they had been at number 1 (and I was one of those — I went from 19 to 2). There have been some Flickr defections as a result, but honestly, I’ve also seen some new and wonderful photos on the front page of Flickr that may not have ever gotten there without a bit of a shakeup.

    DNW

  4. Posted November 5, 2006 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Perhaps Kevin is pondering the same thing that former Digg readers are wondering about. How did a site that used to be good at uncovering new and interesting stories become so stale so fast? I quit reading Digg a month or so ago put off by the immaturity of the community and their descent into personal vanity and egos.

  5. Posted November 5, 2006 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    I think what will eventually happen, people will start to see that there’s nothing wrong with having an editor or a moderator or a carefully tuned algorithm or a blog with comments turned off. As people spend more time editing their own pages, they should appreciate the role more.

    I could be wrong, but it felt to me like Digg got its start because of the many people frustrated with Slashdot editors. I think it’s a mistake to use a personal disagreement like that as a reason to throw the baby (editing) out with the bathwater. Sure, there’s some great algorithmic ideas out there, but where there’s an algorithm worth ($) gaming, there’s going to be foul play. I think TechMeme is a better example of how editing and algorithm can coexist. On the other hand, Digg is a message board where the first post is always a hyperlink to somewhere else.

  6. Anon
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Why are Web 2.0 users sensitive, whiny bitches?

  7. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Anon — that’s a great question.

    Maybe its because they care about what they do — and what they’re contributing to?

  8. E. David Zotter
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    I love it. The script kiddies are making trouble for the dark tipper (i.e. mr. wanna-be hacker himself…kevin rose).

    Secondly, Hey Kevin..you’re not able to manipulate the standings on a whim anymore. As an end user I was getting a little tired of reading Kevin Rose self promotion hype from third parties. Everyone is watching now… the fake weighting can’t go on my friends.

    Kevin & co. are spending all kinds of time sculpting the frontpage and manually balancing content for the 99% of users that only watch and don’t participate. Seriously, how many techtv tss content from yesteryear is being rehashed to the frontpage? No more promotion of LEO, okay?

    Digg is dead, I’m going to invest my time making someone else a web 2.0 millionaire… someone that cares about the community, not just themselves.

    Regards,
    E. David Zotter

  9. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    PJ — I would agree, there is nothing wrong with editors.
    What I take exception to is how there is obvious editing by editors on Digg — but they take great pains to sell it as social content site by its users, for its users, without any editorial influence.

    For there to be overt editorial control would probably concede that Jason Calacanis was right with Netscape, and I just don’t see that happening.

    But, they could do away with much controversy by just admitting that there was editorial control — all the time, they they’ll be making changes unilaterally and without warning, and that people’s accounts can be deleted without much notice.

    That way people could never complain that they were never told that something like that could happen; the fairness of the situation, however, would continue to be up for debate.

  10. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Zotter, when you’ve come back from the edges of web2.0 space, let us know what you’ve found! :D

    Cheers
    t @ dji

  11. Posted November 5, 2006 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Your blog is too hard to read. No need to colorize and format every other sentence. You fail readability 101, but thanks for playing! :)

    Seriously though, I couldn’t read past the 2nd paragraph without getting a headache.

  12. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Whassup J — I’ve been thinking of toning that down, to be honest.

    Thanks for bringing it up ;)

  13. Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Grow up you itty bitty baby. It’s his site he can do what he wants. And why is it a bad thing that now there’s a larger spread of contributing users… that must be terrible! More community involvement is horrible for growth! Give me a break, wipe your nose and shut up.

  14. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Who hooo! Second troll!

    (rubs hands)

    wait.

    Is that all you’ve got?

    GMAB — that’s the most tired comment I’ve heard in a few days; of COURSE its his site and he can do whatever the bloody hell he wants with it. And yes, I enjoy the cheese with my whine very much thank you. ;)

    I’m not commenting on how good or bad the algorithm is; as I said, getting more people to use it is an important thing to try and do — but there has to be a better way than doing it while alienating and ignoring your most loyal users.

    Thanks for stopping by though.
    I do find trolls enormously entertaining! :)

  15. Kevin
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    What up party people?

  16. Tony
    Posted November 5, 2006 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    What up Kev? Pull up a chair and I’ll get you a cold one.

  17. Posted November 6, 2006 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Ha i guess my comment sounded a bit harsh. The article is informative and well written, just hard on the eyes is all :)

  18. Tony
    Posted November 6, 2006 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    J — the point was well taken … I guess the bold face has crept in more and more over the past few months. ;)

12 Trackbacks

  1. [...] If participatory media is all about community and the user in control, it’s not surprising that Digg is having so many problems taking a traditional command and control approach to addressing abuse of the system. You have to wonder why Kevin Rose didn’t just come out and ask the “community” how to solve the problem. When you put the users in control, you can’t suddenly decide that they have too much control and take it away from them. As Tony Hung points out: It seems like the “first principles” of social media — before web applications, AJAX, blogging, and everything (yes, even before Authenticity and Transparency) — are based on conversations: the give and take between two parties. [...]

  2. By An Open Letter to Kevin Rose at The Blog Herald on November 4, 2006 at 11:25 pm

    [...] More on this issue from our own Tony Hung. [...]

  3. [...] Tony at Deep Jive Interests points out that it doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game, that inclusion shouldn’t be at the cost of excluding those already loyal to the community. [...]

  4. By My Chosen Readings « Dino’s Journal on November 5, 2006 at 4:01 am

    [...] Kevin Rose Failing Social Media 101 Miserably -kritik kepada Digg.com dan Kevin Rose  [...]

  5. [...] So it seems that my suspicions about the digg algorithm are being noticed by everyone else. Tony over at Deep Jive Interests has an interesting write up: I recognize the conundrum he and Digg is in: how to make Digg as accessible as possible to newer and casual Diggers, while trying to maintain the core community that has supported you for so long. [...]

  6. [...] Everyone is arguing about the best way for Digg to do a social bookmarketing oops I mean social bookmarking service. [...]

  7. By yardley.ca » Care and feeding of top users on November 6, 2006 at 2:32 am

    [...] A minor hullabullo burst out a couple days ago over digg’s treatment of its top users – digg changed its algorithm sparked by a bit of public kvetching, a TechCrunch post and an open letter from one of the top users. Comments on TechCrunch were not particularly kind to the aggrieved diggers – although the algo change could’ve been communicated better. I filed this away until I read Markus Frind on it, and realized there was more there: [...]

  8. By RyanUnderdown.com - » Digg Changes Bearing Fruit on November 6, 2006 at 10:11 am

    [...] Additional reading on the problems over at Digg can be found here, here, and here [...]

  9. [...] More growing pains for Digg, as game theory and social psychology catch up to the popular user-generated news site. [...]

  10. [...] Blogging is not supposed to be 1-way communication – and if you want only positive communication [i.e. blah blahs..], you are just using your muscle power to your own benefit and sooner or later – you get a shift+del from the blogosphere. I do understand that at times, people tend to leave irresponsible comments and one should delete them – but not at the cost of moderating comments to one’s benefit. Never. “At the end of the day, some of the biggest or controversial figures in the blogosphere, such as Mike Arrington, Jason Calacanis, or Richard Edelman may or may not be guilty of many things, but one thing they’re all great at is carrying on the conversation in some for or another.” [Tony] [...]

  11. [...] Im referring to the latest algorithm change over at Digg.read more | digg story Posted in Uncategorized | Leave a [...]

  12. [...] Im referring to the latest algorithm change over at Digg.read more | digg story This entry was posted on Sunday, December 16th, 2007 at 12:21 pm and is filed under [...]

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