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	<title>Deep Jive Interests &#187; Toluu</title>
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		<title>Fine, I&#8217;ll Say It: Shyftr Crosses The Line</title>
		<link>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2008/04/12/fine-ill-say-it-shyftr-crosses-the-line/</link>
		<comments>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2008/04/12/fine-ill-say-it-shyftr-crosses-the-line/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tony Hung</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Copyright]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[RSS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shyftr]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toluu]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/?p=1315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I can already tell what the headlining post this weekend is going to be on Techmeme (or bitchmeme, a la MG), and its going to probably revolve around Shyftr, a relatively new service in the RSS aggregating category (and (&#8230;)</p><p><a href="http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2008/04/12/fine-ill-say-it-shyftr-crosses-the-line/">Read the rest of this entry &#187;</a></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crossing-the-line.jpg" ><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1316" title="crossing-the-line" src="http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/crossing-the-line.jpg" alt="" width="420" height="286" /></a></p>
<p>Well, I can already tell what the headlining post this weekend is going to be on <a href="http://www.techmeme.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.techmeme.com');">Techmeme</a> (or bitchmeme, a la MG), and its going to probably revolve around <a href="http://www.shyftr.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.shyftr.com');" target="_blank">Shyftr</a>, a relatively new service in the RSS aggregating category (and lo, since I started writing, <a href="http://www.techmeme.com/080412/p1#a080412p1" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.techmeme.com');" target="_blank">it has begun!</a>)</p>
<p>Or, should I say &#8220;scraping&#8221; category?</p>
<p>No, you&#8217;re right &#8212; that&#8217;s not fair.  I know Shyftr has its fans (<a href="http://www.louisgray.com/live/2008/04/should-fractured-feed-reader-comments.html" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.louisgray.com');" target="_blank">lik</a><a href="http://www.louisgray.com/live/2008/04/should-fractured-feed-reader-comments.html" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.louisgray.com');" target="_blank">e Louis Gray,</a> who I  respect immensely and is an awesome blogger in his own right)Here&#8217;s the cribs notes version as I see them: Shyftr is a new social network that revolves around sharing RSS feeds.  Now, what&#8217;s so harmless about that, you might add?  Surely we have social networks involving all kinds of niches, and aren&#8217;t feeds meant to be shared?</p>
<p>Well, there&#8217;s sharing, as in &#8220;hey, look at this new feed, you should check it out&#8221; &#8212; and there&#8217;s sharing, also known as, &#8220;I&#8217;m going to scrape and republish a blogger&#8217;s an entire feed, so that many people can check it out&#8221;.</p>
<p>And in that respect, Shyftr is a lot like <a href="http://www.toluu.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.toluu.com');" target="_blank">Toluu</a>, which allows people to publicly share feeds as well, although the social network aspect of Shyftr is absent (i.e you cannot comment on particular feeds or stories).</p>
<p>Let me be clear: I am making no value judgements against its creators or against its original intent (which may have been to let people have fun in sharing their feeds).</p>
<p>However, in my mind, when a service cannot exist *without* republishing others content in its entirety, and directly profits from that republishing <strong>without the original consent of the author</strong>, there&#8217;s something that isn&#8217;t right.</p>
<p>What do I mean by &#8220;profit&#8221; when none of these services are *actually* making a profit?  Well, I am using the term loosely, in that they are deriving the present benefit of *existing*, and the real future benefit of earnings around republishing someone else&#8217;s content.</p>
<p>Now the fact that &#8220;conversations&#8221; are also happening above, around, and beyond the original blogs is interesting, but ultimately a foot note in this conversation; services like Friendfeed also aggregate conversations around blogging topics, but unlike Shyftr and Toluu, don&#8217;t host the *entire* feed.</p>
<p><strong>So where am I drawing the line that Shyftr crosses?</strong></p>
<p>Well, I accept the idea that conversations are going to be fractured, and that I don&#8217;t *own* them.  I would *like* to host them on this blog, but I do realize that conversations have a life of their own (and run wild and free wherever they like) and exist wherever they like because their real owners are those folks who are having them.  I only have the privilege of starting them, and participating in them wherever they are.</p>
<p>To bully and force them into being in a certain place (i.e. here) would be profoundly myopic, and as a blogger (i.e. someone who is supposed to understand and navigate these kinds of new media landmines) &#8212; heck, I don&#8217;t even know the right word.  Some combination of &#8220;stupid&#8221; and &#8220;hypocritical&#8221;, like a doctor not renewing his own prescriptions for blood pressure medication, a teacher not doing his or her own homework.</p>
<p>(&#8220;hypo-stupid?&#8221;)</p>
<p>Oh wait, someone&#8217;s <a href="http://www.blogherald.com/2008/04/05/how-a-videoblogger-from-nyc-outsmarted-a-so-called-social-media-expert/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.blogherald.com');" target="_blank">already demonstrated this recently.</a></p>
<p>Anyway, its not the conversations being hosted somewhere else that bothers me, its that there are a new crop of services which would not otherwise exist<strong> without republishing someone else&#8217;s content without the original author&#8217;s explicit permission.</strong> Well, lots of people&#8217;s content. And you can dress it up and all kinds of clothing and all kinds of nifty wrappers, but ultimately that&#8217;s what this is about.</p>
<p>And to me, that&#8217;s what the line is, and in my mind services like Shyftr (wittingly or unwittingly) cross it.</p>
<p>Now is the problem with RSS feeds?  That we don&#8217;t understand the explicit rights that are associated with it?  Perhaps.  <a href="http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/01/15.html#a9211" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/radio.weblogs.com');" target="_blank">This isn&#8217;t a new conversation after all (here&#8217;s a link from Scoble circa 2005)</a>, and let&#8217;s be real clear: this topic is probably as old as RSS feeds itself.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no <a href="http://www.plagiarismtoday.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.plagiarismtoday.com');" target="_blank">copyright guru</a>, and I don&#8217;t pretend to know all the details of what that entails, but what I do know is this: unless and until there is a general consensus about what the rights around RSS feeds are (because my bias is that there is absolutely no implied rights to reproduce carte blanche), <strong>I think there is a moral and ethical obligation to obtain content from the content owners about reproducing feeds in their entirety</strong>, particularly if its going to be used as part of public service which a) has or will generate profits from a service which is based on those feeds and therefore is a b) service which cannot exist without reproducing (i.e. &#8220;copying&#8221;) those feeds.</p>
<p>Until they do, they&#8217;re a lot like another kind of site or blog which fits that kind of definition.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.techaddress.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.techaddress.com');" target="_blank">Content scraper.</a></p>
<p>{an ugly word, I know}</p>
<p><strong>Update: </strong>Eric Berlin, who&#8217;s <a href="http://twitter.com/ebrage/statuses/787551181" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/twitter.com');" target="_blank">initial Tweets</a> prompted this <a href="http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/onlinemediacultist.com');" target="_blank">post chimes</a> in and, amongst other cogent arguments, echoes<a href="http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/04/11/shyftr-feed-theft-or-social-news-reader/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.mathewingram.com');" target="_blank"> Mat Ingram&#8217;s sentiments</a>: building a business around someone the full reproduction of other&#8217;s content doesn&#8217;t seem right.</p>
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