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	<title>Deep Jive Interests &#187; Jeff Howe</title>
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	<link>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Web 2.0, Social Media, Marketing.</description>
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		<title>Some Thoughts On the Personalities At Mesh</title>
		<link>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/some-thoughts-on-the-personalities-at-mesh/</link>
		<comments>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/some-thoughts-on-the-personalities-at-mesh/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 03:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tony Hung</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Austin Hill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[CommandN]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jeff Howe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jim Buckmaster]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lionel Manchaca]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Loren Feldman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mesh07]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Arrington]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Masnick]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PayPerPost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ted Murphy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[blackrimglasses]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[craigslist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethan kaplan]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/some-thoughts-on-the-personalities-at-mesh/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting meeting some of these folks in person.  Here are my thoughts on what some of them were like, or seemed like.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of whom I met, and some who I observed.  All were interesting in their own ways.</p>
<p>1. <strong><a href="http://www.crunchnotes.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.crunchnotes.com');" target="_blank">Mike Arrington</a></strong> doesn&#8217;t want to be thought of as a guru &#8212; he wants to be first to report things.  Being outrageous helps him, but why are you paying attention to him or what he&#8217;s saying?  He&#8217;s not a guru or anything.</p>
<p>2. <strong><a href="http://www.givemeaning.blogspot.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.givemeaning.blogspot.com');" target="_blank">Tom Williams</a></strong> and <strong><a href="http://www.billionswithzeroknowledge.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.billionswithzeroknowledge.com');" target="_blank">Austin Hill</a></strong> *are* inspiring.</p>
<p>3. <strong><a href="http://www.1938media.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.1938media.com');" target="_blank">Loren Feldman</a></strong> is a funny guy and has a uniquely sharp talent of cutting through the BS in a funny way.  That&#8217;s valuable.  And funny.  But I mentioned that already, didn&#8217;t I?</p>
<p>4. <strong><a href="http://www.orato.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.orato.com');" target="_blank">Paul Sullivan</a></strong> is a smart guy who knows a lot about journalism &#8212; and who is as enthusiastic as hell about it for being in the business as long as he has.</p>
<p>5. <strong><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/05/on_tour.html" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.bbc.co.uk');" target="_blank">Steve Herrman</a></strong> has never been to Toronto or Canada until Mesh.  I hope he had a good time. ;)</p>
<p>6.<strong> <a href="http://www.blackrimglasses.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.blackrimglasses.com');" target="_blank">Ethan Kaplan</a> </strong>is wicked smart.  The way that he talks so smartly and so abstractly about &#8212; let&#8217;s face it, pirated music &#8212; makes it sound like thesis material.  And it probably is for someone somewhere.</p>
<p>7. <strong><a href="http://www.edelman.com/speak_up/blog/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.edelman.com');" target="_blank">Richard Edelman</a></strong>, in spite of the Wal-mart fiasco, seemed really genuine about a desire for transparency and authenticity in public relations &#8212; in a this-guy-isn&#8217;t-faking-it kind of way.  I mean it.</p>
<p>8. <strong><a href="http://www.craigslist.com" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.craigslist.com');" target="_blank">Jim Buckmaster</a></strong> only had one thing to say: &#8220;we do what the users want&#8221;.  In spite of the wonder that is Craigslist, there wasn&#8217;t a lot of sophistication to his message.  On the other hand, is that any surprise from someone described as a <a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4082" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/blogs.zdnet.com');" target="_blank">social anarchist or a communist</a>?</p>
<p>9. <strong><a href="http://crowdsourcing.typepad.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/crowdsourcing.typepad.com');" target="_blank">Jeff Howe</a></strong> seems like a cool dude, and whose message about crowdsourcing was interesting and important: crowdsourcing is good for filtering.  Not so much for certain kinds of content creation &#8212; like journalism.</p>
<p>10.  <strong><a href="http://www.willpate.org/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.willpate.org');" target="_blank">Will Pate</a></strong>, in spite of his youthful looks, knows a hella lot about creating and maintaining community.  How old is this guy anyway? :)</p>
<p>11.  <strong><a href="http://www.direct2dell.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.direct2dell.com');" target="_blank">Lionel Menchaca</a></strong> was so down-to-earth and self-effacing about Dell&#8217;s community initiatives its a wonder that he&#8217;s a face of Dell.  But he is.  Which is amazing.</p>
<p>12.<strong>  <a href="http://blog.payperpost.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/blog.payperpost.com');" target="_blank">Ted Murphy</a></strong> isn&#8217;t the most evil man in the world, and PayPerPost isn&#8217;t.  Well, probably isn&#8217;t.  But he&#8217;s actually a pretty personable dude who really believes in what he does.</p>
<p>13.  <strong><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/article/www.techdirt.com');" target="_blank">Mike Masnick</a> </strong>is also wicked smart.  I&#8217;m not sure who would win in a face off between him and Ethan Kaplan, but one thing&#8217;s for sure: *my* brain would explode.</p>
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		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Live @ Mesh / Day 2 @ 1340: Digital Sharecropping</title>
		<link>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/live-mesh-day-2-1340-digital-sharecropping/</link>
		<comments>http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/live-mesh-day-2-1340-digital-sharecropping/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 18:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tony Hung</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Cambrian House]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jeff Howe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mesh07]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikipedia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wired]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepjiveinterests.com/2007/05/31/live-mesh-day-2-1340-digital-sharecropping/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With Mathew Ingram, Simon Pulsifer, Jeff Howe, Michael Sikorsky

&#8220;How do you respond criticism towards crowdsourcing?&#8221;

JH: I think its a false controversy.  There were far fewer models back then, and there was no sharecropping taking place.  I think it was first compared to child slavery and I thought this was really offensive.  If [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With Mathew Ingram, Simon Pulsifer, Jeff Howe, Michael Sikorsky</p>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;How do you respond criticism towards crowdsourcing?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>JH: I think its a false controversy.  There were far fewer models back then, and there was no sharecropping taking place.  I think it was first compared to child slavery and I thought this was really offensive.  If the user doesn&#8217;t like the mechanical turk &#8212; but you know what?  People will always get something &#8230; its not nothing.  Even if its consulting, popularity, or learning their craft to exploit in their day job.  Its very self-motivated.  My first response is that I think its a false controversy and there IS an enormous potential for controversy.  I hate &#8220;crowdsourcing&#8221; &#8212; because we love the idea that its organic and grassroots.  Its up to the users whether or not they will be exploited.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;Michael (Cambrian House), this is your business model &#8212; and you&#8217;re doing something to give back to users&#8221;
<ul>
<li> I think Amazon&#8217;s example of the mechanical turn is what makes sharecropping such a negative thing.  We&#8217;re trying to make Cambrian house a co-op, so they get 1% of all revenue as we grow.  Now there&#8217;s this AGM that happens in a different way than it ever could, and we think this is a way to get rid of the idea of digital sharecropping.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;The articles that are agreed to be the most authoratative topic on Wikipedia seem to be the most arcane.  Why do they do this?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>The most active Wikipedians are well educated but fairly well underemployed.  Take me for example.  I did it after school, and I found it enjoyable.  There are other reasons &#8212; moving up the unofficial ranks of the Wikipedia community and so on.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;Jeff Why do people do this?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>I don&#8217;t know.  But I think we vastly underestimate the potential of People.  They are more creative and more intelligent than we think they ever were.  They&#8217;ve become producers rather than consumers &#8212; or prosumers.   A Pew study shows that over hal &#8211;</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>** whoops &#8230; laptop meltdown &#8230; **</li>
<li>Jeff Howe:
<ul>
<li>The biggest strengths of crowdsourcing is actually in filtering as opposed to creating content &#8212; like Digg or Cambrian House.  90% of everything is crap and that&#8217;s something that I&#8217;ve picked up as well.  It applies to crowdsourcing as well, but for the most part its not very good.  If you want osmething that&#8217;s current and what&#8217;s hot, they&#8217;re good for that.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;If time and money wasn&#8217;t a consideration, what idea would you come up with that hasn&#8217;t been thought of?
<ul>
<li>JH:  Its Kiva.org &#8212; its myspace meets microlending.  You can lend people to money in Ghana to change their lives for ever so that they can set up their own businesses.  Robinhoodfund is a good example too.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>On community
<ul>
<li>People think that software is so magical.  But you have to have a framework up before you let the crowds in to help you</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;What&#8217;s most sustainable amongst compensation mechanisms&#8221;
<ul>
<li>SP: The free model has been a success.  Wikia is a profit model that is a merged model for a potential to make money off of working for Wikipedia.  Then there&#8217;ll be a question of where it will be distributed</li>
<li>JH: Should Flickr have paid money to its users when it was sold? One one side they&#8217;re there and giving there time.  On the other hand &#8230;</li>
<li>MS: Cambrian House says that if we don&#8217;t share in the rewards, we would screw up our context.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;Can you explain the rating systems on your site?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>MS: Our rating system  is called &#8220;glory points&#8221;. You can attach glory points to every single activity.  What we do is take a look at what you&#8217;ve done and what you don&#8217;t do so that we can help you get more glory.  We can dynamically tune how much glory points so that you can do stuff to force serendipity.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;Is YouTube getting sold without compensating its users wrong?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>JH: I don&#8217;t think so.  I mean, where do you draw the line.  Pagerank is essentially a crowdsourcing algorithm.  So all the Google is built upon that.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;Do you have any tips on getting participation on my blog?&#8221;
<ul>
<li>SP: The filtering is what&#8217;s important.  90% what gets submitted isn&#8217;t useful for the wikipedia.  I don&#8217;t have an answer for the question re: alienating your audience at the expense of editing.</li>
<li>MS: Its important to have standards that are obvious</li>
<li>JH: The slashdot community is elegant and moderates itself (although its complicated)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>&#8220;How viable is it to inject a project which is a request for a build that is &#8216;user-generated&#8217; &#8212; is that a viable network within an existing network&#8221;
<ul>
<li>MS: Absolutely.  You should be able to find a segment for a community to help you create things.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>On crowdsourcing gone bad
<ul>
<li>JH: The crowd decides what they want to cover and they ignored photography, so there&#8217;s no accounting for taste.  I don&#8217;t know &#8212; I don&#8217;t think you can really fix it.  This model is really in its infancy.  I think the short answer is that I don&#8217;t know.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Are there any lines which are not OK to cross?
<ul>
<li>JH: That&#8217;s up to the individual.  If someone wants compensation he should ask for it and it should be given.  The line you can&#8217;t cross is at the respect to the user.  Its not that IP doesn&#8217;t exist but that its under a new regime.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Shouldn&#8217;t community be called unpaid contributors?
<ul>
<li>MS: People are there *for* the community, so I think that if you try and get away from that you get away for why they&#8217;re there.  Its not about command and control, but co-ordinating and cultivating.  And that&#8217;s what makes sense for me when it comes to community.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
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