BackBlaze: Why Do You Make It So Hard To Like You?
by Tony Hung on September 17, 2008
Upon the write up and coverage of BackBlaze yesterday on TechCrunch, I decided to download and try BackBlaze, the online backup tool. As writen by others, its entering a bit of a tough arena as there are quite a few established competitors, all of whom are probably trying to grow the space. At $5 a pop for unlimited data storage and transfer, however, its a deal I had to check out, particularly as they had a 15 day trial period.
… Man, did I want to like this product.
There are one big problem I had with the trial that made me stop “trying” it out.
You don’t select the files you want to back up. You *exclude* the ones you *don’t*. The problem, I think, is that the well meaning folks behind BackBlaze assume that you have your files organized into a well organized architecture. That way, its *easy* for their users to *deselect* the files or media they don’t want. They would just — for example — go to the “video” folder and unselect that.
If you’re like me, the reality is that you probably don’t. I have different file types of varying importance scattered across my hard drive. For me to find the one’s I *don’t* want to back up, is a such a colossal hassle, its a deal killer, because I obviously don’t want to include every single file on my hard drive (excluding windows and operations-type ones).
The result? On default, BackBlaze *tries* to upload everything it sees, and I got a screen that says that it will “only” take about 82 days to upload all my junk.
The irony, of course is that because I’m too lazy to exclude the files I don’t want to upload, the time it takes to upload vastly exceeds the 15 day trial. In fact, I was hoping to just *include* a few directories (or a few gigabytes of storage) to see how the rest of the service goes.
Sadly I won’t get that chance, as my gerbil-like attention span just killed any desire to do so. If and when Backblaze changes this, I won’t be coming back to it. As it stands there are too many other competitors to try at the moment.
33 comments
Tony, thank you for trying out the Backblaze service. I wanted to share our thoughts on why we went with the “exlude” model and how you can try the service.
Despite “include” type solutions existing for a decade, 94% of users do not regularly backup. When we asked why, the response we got was “it is too hard.” And the primary reason was exactly what you said – their files were scattered and they didn’t have time to organize, find, and decide which ones to backup. So they just didn’t.
Since our mission was for everyone to backup, we wanted to make it 1-click easy, which led us to our approach: backup everything.
In terms of your 82 days. I assume that means you have hundreds of GB of data, far above the average as most users are backed up in a week or two. If there are media types on your system that you do not want to backup, you can simply exclude them by file type. If you have lots of movies, one or two file type exclusions may bring you down to a couple weeks to backup.
Finally, the 15-day trial was meant to try the service – not to finish the backup. You can try the entire service end-to-end, including doing a test restore at any point.
Again, thank you for trying the service and I hope you’ll consider using it to backup your data. (If not, I just hope you use something.)
Thank you,
Gleb
by Gleb Budman on September 17, 2008 at 2:22 pm. #
@Gleb — I agree that the problems I have may not be the same as the majority of your customers, and if that’s the case, that’s great for you.
On the other hand, to reframe the issue I was trying to bring up, the problem is that I would like to back up *some* video files, and *some* audio files, but not all of them.
Since they’re scattered across a few hard drives, and i’m too lazy / busy to collage them into easy-to-find folders, it is quite difficult for me to “exclude” everything else.
And you’re right about the size — its in the hundreds of megabytes. I don’t think that this is an unreasonable size, however, given how many “critical” pieces of data for most families are probably photos and video.
Cheers
t @ dji
by Tony Hung on September 17, 2008 at 4:40 pm. #
I haven’t tested the system, but just based on these comments … why the hell isn’t there an *option* for exclusion or inclusion?
by Matt on September 18, 2008 at 12:37 pm. #
Matt and Tony, our first prototype was actually the inclusion model, but most users rejected it because they didn’t know how or didn’t want to take the time to find all the files they wanted to backup and were constantly concerned they would miss or forget one. The whole point was to make backups happen in a hands-off fashion.
Matt, we considered adding an option for both, but since every option adds complexity, we decided to leave it off for now. At some point we may add that.
Thanks again for the feedback.
Gleb
by Gleb Budman on September 18, 2008 at 2:11 pm. #
[...] BackBlaze: Why Do You Make It So Hard To Like You? [...]
by Backblaze: Backing Up Your Files Online | afewgoodpens.com on September 21, 2008 at 7:28 pm. #
I came across this post after doing a search for Backblaze reviews.
I’m glad I read this. This inclusion vs exclusion method is a deal killer for me too. There are a small amount of files/directories I want to back up. I don’t want to go around and figure out what NOT to backup.
I hope backblaze adds an option for people like me. Until then, I’ll be looking elsewhere.
I understand that the service wants to make it easier for mom and pops that wants an easy backup solution. But for people that know exactly what they want to do.. well, they are closing the door on them.
too bad.
I also read in another review that the encryption isn’t what you would think it is. Meaning it is stored on the server non-encrypted. Is this true? The website seems to indicate that it is, however this review on the other site said that when you get your USB drive (to restore), the data comes back unencrypted. If this is true, well, then this is an even bigger deal than the inclusion/exclusion situation.
by Rick on February 3, 2009 at 12:20 pm. #
* there’s a private key that you can set in the software preferences on your mac (i have not tried the windows version) and this encrypts your data.
* i actually like the exclusion-only model since it makes it rather simple even though i am a power user. that given, i do have some semblance of organization on my machine although nowhere near pefect.
* im not sure about how the data comes back on drive or disc (if its mailed to you) but would like to know more about whether it arrives encrypted or not.
by john donne on February 19, 2009 at 7:05 am. #
I also decided to try Backblaze. I just want to back up about 20-30 gigs of family photos and important documents. Backblaze wants to back up about 300 gigabytes and there is no easy way to exclude folders, so forget it. There isn’t even an easy way to see exactly what folders Backblaze is backing up during the initial backup.
I do have a theory though. Backblaze does not want people like us as clients, because we’re more likely to backup more data than people with one hard drive and a few gigs of family photos under My Pictures. So Backblaze has PURPOSELY made it difficult for people with multiple hard drives and lots of data to use their system. It’s the only rational explanation. Unfortunately, that policy makes it pretty much impossible for me to use the service.
by Matt on June 3, 2009 at 10:06 am. #
thanks for your post and the comments were very helpful. I think the exclusion system works well for me, but everyone is different. hopefully you can eventually find a service that meets your needs.
by dave on August 16, 2009 at 7:01 pm. #
Exclusion system = no deal…end of story
by Steven Miller on August 27, 2009 at 6:08 am. #
@Matt – I agree with your theory, we professional data hoarders don’t fit their demographics… I have ~300GB of valuable photographs 2x on a local backup server, and another ~50GB of documents which get synced overnight to Amazon S3, which is getting pretty pricey at that point. I’m a photographer/graphic artist and need to backup only 15 file types, tops. It would take me forever to figure out which file types to *exclude* with BackBlaze.
BackBlaze, please give me an option for inclusion or uploading specific directories in one way or the other… maybe create presets for your app?
by mh on September 1, 2009 at 9:43 pm. #
I’m doing my research on backup solutions because I’ve been playing with fire long enough, and although I love the look and feel of BackBlaze, I have yet to hear of anyone really advocating the exclusion system over the inclusion system (except BackBlaze themselves)
I’m going to give it a try anyway and hope that I manage to include what I need in some reasonable time..
by Blake on September 18, 2009 at 7:57 pm. #
I read the blog at BackBlaze and was very impressed by their storage solution. I was even ready to try BackBlaze until I read this review. Good thing that I did. I want the inclusion model versus the exclusion model. I have a few folders (Primarily the user documents folder and a few others) that have the data I want backed up. I know what I want backed up. Something tells me that the company has some big egos in where they think they know better instead of listening to what the customer wants. Give the user a choice, instead of the other way around.
by Allen on November 21, 2009 at 12:29 am. #
Backblaze is making sure that if you need a file, it is in the list and you CANNOT possibly forget to back it up. This is foolproof. If you are sure you won’t need a backed up file, then don’t include it.
Since the storage is free and you are really paying for the service of automatic backup and recovery, then the time it takes to do the initial backup shouldn’t be much of an issue in comparison.
I think it is a great decision to use the exclusionary model, especially for users that are on the less technical side of things.
by Pat Boyle on January 18, 2010 at 10:33 am. #
I’m subscribed to Backblaze’s $50/year plan.
My problem is that the initial backup will take months. This is NOT Backblaze’s fault.
I also use Dropbox. Dropbox’s software is smart enough to realize that a file I am uploading has already been uploaded by another user. Is Backblaze’s software capable of that?
I wish you had a users forum.
by Javier Bonet on January 21, 2010 at 9:12 am. #
I would think this is designed for normal users. I would be less likely to use it but I am recommending it for people who wouldn’t backup and wouldn’t know what to select or where files are kept. The easier for them the better.
by Vernon on February 5, 2010 at 5:12 pm. #
I am currently uploading my data to Backblaze and I love the fact that it automatically backs up everything.
It would be far more trouble for me to go through both my entire computer system and external drive and choose each file or folder that I wanted backed up online and move it into a special area for uploading. With my luck, I would most certainly forget to upload something important and lose the data if something were to happen to my computer. I much prefer having everything backed up automatically for me.
There are also other services like Mozy and Carbonite, but I had read about a lot of customer service problems at Mozy, claims of “unlimited storage” but not allowing external drives to be uploaded at Carbonite, failure to retain important metadata and “reticulate spline” problems at Mozy, etc. Ouch!
After a careful review of all of the available services, reading reviews like this one, and considering my own needs, Backblaze was the best option for me.
by Ron on March 26, 2010 at 2:08 pm. #
iskash li da probash ezikat mi?
by itso on April 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm. #
I love the model – the include-by-default approach is exactly why I like Time Machine so much. BackBlaze looks like a great complement.
Agreed that it’s not for everyone, but maybe that’s the point. People’s differing relationships with data and organization mean that trying to develop a model that’s great for everyone is just Quixotic.
It seems like it’s far better to identify a particular sub-set of users, and tailor your service to them. BackBlaze seems suited to people with lots of well-organized stuff in fairly stable hierarchies.
If that’s you, great. If not, there are plenty of other services out there, with some offering better fits than others.
by Alex Bowles on June 19, 2010 at 2:44 pm. #
Mr. Gleb, you simply don’t understand the world. This systems is so misconceived that only people who don’t need the restore their data could continue as your customers.
J. Stone
by Jamie Stone on June 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm. #
It seems the criticism that it’s too hard to exclude things because they’re scattered is silly. For an include system, the same argument would be that it’s too hard to find everything you want backed up because it’s scattered. From a data security perspective, backing up by default and excluding specific, unimportant, items is better than missing half the valuable data because you forgot about that folder.
Yes it takes a while the first time, but since only changes are backed up after the initial setup, it seems that this is a one-time inconvenience.
On the whole, this review was quite unhelpful because it was entirely based around a criticism that seems to hold for both include and exclude models.
by Neil on July 27, 2010 at 4:41 pm. #
Hello. I would like to know a few things since I have never used an online data backup service. First, are music, picture and video files degreaded at all from original to backup then restored; or is the restored file an exact match to the original files? Second, it sounds like the backup takes a very long time. How long does it take to restore files? For example if I wanted to watch a movie I have backed up would it be available in minutes or days? Finally, can I backup my system in case something happens to my computer and I need to reformat and restore my computer back to a working state? Would I be able t create a bootable disc?
Thank you for your time and patience as i said earlier this is new to me and I just want to make sure the service is for me.
by John Levesque on August 18, 2010 at 6:39 am. #
I’ve been researching a lot (if not all) of the online backup services for the last few days to see which one is right for me, and fits my needs.
I read the negative comments regarding the exclusion model that the BackBlaze software uses and was sure that I could overlook it’s obvious power-user shortcomings but boy was I wrong. The issue is that I don’t want to have to add every folder that I don’t want to backup. Allow me to explain: I currently have a few sizable primary folders on my desktop that I need to backup. Family pictures, videos, downloads, etc.. But those aren’t the only folders on my desktop. So, not only would I have to specify all the folders inside of my Documents and Settings user profile, but then I would have to also add all the folders on my Desktop that I didn’t feel necessary to backup as well.
Of course, sure, with the simi-centralized library of stuff in a few primary folders I could just move them to the root of the drive and just disallow all other folders. The second issue is the folder list is just that, a list, you have to click an add button, and add the folder. There is no nifty viewing of your directory tree, check or uncheck. If that were the case, using the exclusion method wouldn’t hardly be an issue. Just check what you don’t want but if there was a nifty directory view of your drive more then likely they would use an inclusion method with default folders selected in keeping with the standard logic of that method.
Be that as it may, using the seemingly antiquated (albeit thinner from a program standpoint) method of a folder list rather than a graphical view of the tree it makes more sense to use the exclusion method (I would however highly suggest that they develop a new client using the more familiar tree view).
Then I got to actually looking at the restore service. Instead of selecting and restoring the individual files you have to select the files you want to restore, and download them as a large zip file. While not terribly hot on that idea, I can see from BackBlaze’s perspective why it’s beneficial to do it that way because if they are on some sort of metered upload bandwidth plan they would use less by sending the archive to the user in a compressed state, as compared to individual raw files (however unlikely due to the amount of data they move per month). Depending on the type of files being compressed, downloading the archive is probably a little faster than it would have been had all the files been uncompressed to begin with. The other issue is between the compression on BackBlaze’s side, and your decompression on the user side any time that would have been saved by using that method would have been eaten up by the additional steps involved in the restore procedure. Also, using that procedure probably isn’t the easiest for the new users they’re claiming to be helping by flaking out on the graphical directory view opting for a folder list, and using the exclude method of data selection.
The only logical conclusion that I can draw as to why they don’t have the ability to restore individual files without first zipping them into an archive is because their software is very basic and doesn’t support the file transfer from the server back to the client and they obviously needed a way for the user to restore their data so relegating the restore procedure to being web-based and bundling all the files together for a single download was/is the only option and the Zip format was chosen due to it’s universality.
Everything that they’re doing is logical based upon the limitations that their software has.
I do have to give them credit though, their software is thin and efficient. I just wish that they had a version with more of a classic backup utility feel to it, and supported an encrypted restore file transfer method.
Having those 2 features would make this online backup service GOLD. Without them, to me, it loses 50% of it’s apeal.
by Matt Dearman on September 19, 2010 at 4:39 am. #
Is BackBlaze the problem, or is it that we all need to better organize our computer files? Not trying to cause trouble, but personally I only find good solutions to my problems when I accurately quantify what’s really going on. Maybe these winter months would be a good time for us to go through our computers and set up files, procedures, put files we need backed up separate from those we don’t, etc., so that something like BackBlaze would work for us. :)
by Jeanine Thompson on October 26, 2010 at 7:45 pm. #
I have a multi-layered backup system here, which includes a weekly bootable backup to a firewire drive that is stored in a fire proof box, incremental backups to a drive attached to a Mac mini using QRecall – far better that TimeMachine, and a weekly incremental backup to another drive using QRecall which is stored separately from the bootable drive and the frequent backup drive. Oh, I also have a RAID 1 in my mac so I consider myself pretty safe from software or hardware failures.
However, the one weakness is the risk of a break in or a very serious fire, hence my desire for some sort of off-line backup. File recovery from this would be last resort when computer and local backups were all destroyed or stolen, unlikely but not impossible. In that situation I would want ALL my files back and to download maybe 200GB of data while not impossible would be something of a task.
As far as I know, only Crashplan and Backblaze offer to put data on a hard drive and ship it to you, but Crashplan won’t ship to the UK whereas Backblaze will. OK it’s an expensive option at $189 and I hope I never have to do it, but at least I know that I can get my priceless family pictures and video back reasonably quickly.
The impression I get from some of the posts here is that many people are relying on on-line backups as their only backups, which is foolhardy in the extreme. Yes, I’d like to see “Inclusion” as an option as well as “Exclusion” but the hard drive restore to the UK is the deal maker for me at the moment.
by Adrian on January 23, 2011 at 8:27 am. #
Just to be clear, we don’t offer “seeds”. If a customer needed all their data back, anywhere in the world – we’d do what we always do: the right thing. We’d have to figure out if there were any additional fees mind you (overnight to parts of .eu can be expensive!) but we’d never deny access to data quickly.
We’d have too much fun saving the day for that customer to say no! :)
by Matthew Dornquast on January 23, 2011 at 8:05 pm. #
Sorry if it wasn’t obvious, I work for Code 42/Crashplan.
by Matthew Dornquast on January 23, 2011 at 8:07 pm. #
Hi, I would like to make use of a nice off-site back-up solution like Blackblaze at fixed price for all of my data. I downloaded the 15 days trial but certain important folders are excluded, such as the Library. [ My iTunes and iPhoto archive seems to be excluded and I can not change the settings ] Would this only be during the trail period or would Blackblaze not back-up such folders ?
by Tinus on February 5, 2011 at 6:07 am. #
I’m trying out the service. At first I just wanted to back up my hard drive but because I could not just choose the hard drive I don’t know maybe backing up everything and my hard drive would be better. I really don’t wanted it to take months for the initial back up but I really need to do something. I use DVDs but now my computer has a hard time reading them. My computer has some DVD problems I don’t know why. I can read them fine on my daughters computer. I’m paranoid I guess. I once lost all my sons baby photos because of lighting on my ex hd. I was so devastated. All those videos ( his first cry) I cried for days. I took my hard drive to get worked on but know one could get the photo and videos. So now I back up back up and back up. I use DVD’s and photo bucket and now I wanted to tried backblazes because I don’t always remember to back up on photo-bucket and for some reason I cant upload videos there. I tryed Ccarbonite but it didnt suport ex hd.
by April on February 21, 2011 at 5:35 pm. #
If I could I would have paid be happy to pay $190 to get back my sons baby pictures and videos. So backblaze having the option to put it all one a HD for you I would definitely pay $190 for that service. I wish I know about backing up when I first starting using a digial camera.
by April on February 21, 2011 at 5:44 pm. #
April’s comment that she “wished she knew” about backup before she lost pictures, is why this program is made exactly right for its market. The haters out there are the guys with RAID backup arrays in their (our) basements … I am a consultant specializing in backup, and have used every possible type of backup and service from Carbonite to ZFS. Of course there are features unavailable in the very least expensive off-site backup service available … it’s $50/yr! And even though it is so inexpensive, it is the best solution I have seen for people who really are too afraid or busy to backup. The fear comes from the complexity … take that away, and the problem is solved. The user who is in that position doesn’t have networked drives (how would they have gotten set up?), or a Domain Controller. They have a digital camera or 2, a PC (probably a laptop with no extra bays), and maybe a camera phone or iPad. They take pictures, and often leave them on the camera until they are forced to take the scary step of exporting to the camera, and OMG, deleting them from the camera. They almost never make it off the smartphone, unless they send them somewhere. So no, this isn’t for everybody … just the majority, if they understood. And J. Stone, YOU are the one with no clue about social engineering … it is EXACTLY the person who has files scattered about, who this will protect the most. That person doesn’t know where they are to SELECT them … but when he gets everything back, he can probably sift through (or remember a search term) and find it. It takes no longer to organize your files than it would to go through them one by one to select the ones you want to keep. If this developer were charging by the MB or GB, then I would agree that a better include/exclude model would be required … but he has chosen to “cover the cost” of the extra space to have the ADVANTAGE of not requiring the user to select files.
I do not recommend this service or any other, for everybody. It’s great for most, especially the busy or technologically disinterested. It has stopped the loss of important mementos for several customers. Most of my users need features like deduplication and compression, and know exactly where their data is, so they need exotic SANs with ZFS file systems, but for the home user … road warrior, or student, this is a great alternative …. especially teamed up with Windows Home Server, but that’s another story.
by Barry on August 6, 2011 at 1:09 am. #
I’m currently trying out Backblaze, and have been taken aback by the exclusion method. However, I would suggest that the method is not at all the problem, but rather the interface for managing it. A file tree with checkboxes seems to work for just about every other backup tool I have used. If Backblaze wants to do a full backup, fine, check all folders (except system folders, etc.) by default. Exclusion should be as simple as opening the Inclusion/Exclusion folder view and unchecking boxes. The Add Folder>>Find Folder>>Select Folder>>Repeat process can take forever if you wish to intelligently manage your backups. To further simplify things, the folder view could include the amount of data each folder contains, to assist in finding rogue folders. (For example, a local backup of a media folder that you forgot you made two years ago, or a huge video game you had installed on a second hard drive.)
While I understand the argument that this “feature” may be in place to counter-intuitively scare away power users with lots of data, in my case it will result in much more data being uploaded than necessary.
by Max on August 15, 2011 at 6:05 pm. #
The last comment from “MAX” is the correct point!! Inclusion/Exclusion should just be a matter of what the Application selects as it’s default. If It starts with everything selected but systems folders then it’s Exclusion based. Uncheck a folder (with easy Tree View Check Box) and it back in your hands to exclude what you want. Then all the issues and talking point go ways.
by Mark on September 19, 2011 at 12:00 pm. #