I will happily concede that Microsoft, as a company, often acts like a thug in the way that it deals with its clients and customers. But if there’s one thing I hate just as much (no, more), its the way Apple’s fan’s treat and perceive each other — including, newbies.
Case in point the Wired piece (en)titled: “What’s Happened To Our Lovely Cult?”
I understand that title’s meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but it details everything that I dislike about Apple / Mac users. The smug, holier-than-thou attitude. The worry that they’re own little club is about to be diluted with mouth-breathing n00bs, disavowing the very thing that catapaulted Apple into the world’s collective consciousness — even so far as to calling these new individuals who need help at the genius bars “pea brains”.
Does anyone else note the richy irony here?
For the longest time Apple fans have clamored for Apple’s world dominance, and now that its actually happening, they cry about it (or at least this author does) because its not happening in the way they’d like.
Boo-hoo.
Oh, and the other rich irony?
How about the elitist attitude that Mr. Kahney adopts as he describes these newest Apple “fans”. I mean, isn’t Apple’s brand all about being inclusive, warm, and family-friendly?
Is there anyone else who finds the dichotomy between Apple’s advertising with the reality of their fanbase a little disturbing?
34 Comments
It seems a bit unfair to blame Apple for words written by a blogger who does not work for Apple.
Of course he doesn’t work for Apple — but I find his sentiments are shared by a lot of Macheads. And that’s what I find unlikable. The community behind a piece of software, in my humble opinion, is part of the package behind the brand. Online you can’t separate the two.
Cheers
t @ dji
Hi Tony,
I switched to Apple about two years ago and.. I enjoy the hard- and software, but I don’t necessarily enjoy the attitude some Mac-lovers display. A grain of salt isn’t quite enough: I take Dead Sea portions of the stuff to help me smile through the zealousness and ludicrous elitism. But..
Like Linux devotees, Mac users have this mindframe of the underdog-of-better-breeding yapping at the heels of the large mega-ugly mongrel. And MS fans aren’t thumping on their chest, probably because they know that’d be even more silly.
It’s about being content with the choices you make: I was dead tired of Microsoft’s products and gambled on Apple. It payed off.
I’ll endure the over-enthusiasm mixed with snobbery because the Apple products are worth it ;)
>>” The community behind a piece of software, in my humble opinion, is part of the package behind the brand. Online you can’t separate the two.”
I’d call that silly, except it’s the reason I stopped using Linux and bought a Mac.
What I hate is the “oh macs are so much better” and then I ask “oh yeah why” and the mac user comes back with “they, like, just are” and I’m like “you’re an f’ing hipster who let’s the rest of the world make decisions for you”. At the same time, Microsoft just blows but I have no choice but to use their products unitl I figure Linux and other options out.
I something is so expensive, the average Joe cannot buy it, then the rich elite would flock around it. They would call it their own and anyone who happens to touch it but with a thinner wallet is automatically marginalized.
The best part about this article is that is you replace all of the references to Apple and OS X and replace them with Linux it hits home just as hard.
I use OS X and Windows regularly and I have used Linux quite a bit in the past. I’ve mingled in all of the user communities online and I’d have to say that there is a large community of Linux elitists out there that are just as snobby and condescending to newbies and people learning the OS. I’d beg to argue that they are even meaner to Windows users than any other group.
There are Windows users that are just as bad as the Apple users you describe in this article and they shouldn’t get a pass either. I think it’s unfair to call out the Apple users without looking at the other zealots out there. The elitism and zeal you describe has nothing to do with Apple or with the Linux developers — it comes from the user community. Blaming Apple for what their users do and how their users think is just plain silly.
I can see the elitism in Linux users ’cause you have to actually learn how to use the stuff. Not that it’s super hard, but you have to do some installation and whatnot to get it started. You have to be savvy. Apple elitism comes from “it’s the cool thing so I must be cool and hip” and other bs. I still don’t know to this day what makes apple better and I’ve actually written articles about the subject.
You haven’t met the real Mac Community. If you want to meet the real Mac Community, buy a Mac, use it, and look for online help with problems you are having.
Try the same thing with Linux or Windows, and you will find out what “they, like, just are” really means.
I’ve used Macs for about 20 years in primarily PC/Windows environments and I’ve seen my share of Microsoft elitism. I’ve also dealt for years with “IT” units that exist to service only the full, completely-locked-in Microsoft product line (and nothing else) and brainless tech support who can only read Windows-centric scripts. Lest you think I’m overstating the latter case, these are folks that couldn’t give you an IP address, subnet mask and DNS server address (this was back when static IP addresses were used) if you asked for those numbers specifically–they had no idea what the words meant. They could only give you the numbers by reading a script that told you to click buttons in a particular sequence and enter numbers in the “second box from the top” in a particular Windows dialog.
Mac users who went through this did develop self-reliance and a certain amount of distain for folks who tried to force them into the standard mold, particularly when they had an existing set of tools that worked well for them. I’m beyond all this now, thankfully…I just want an open-protocol network environment and to be allowed to support myself–a situtation that’s a lot easier to come by now than in the past. I expect some of the above attitude has provided a foundation–or at least a permissive host environment–for the attitudes that you don’t like. However, I think it’s a relatively small minority of vocal Mac users that cause most of this trouble. The rest of the community, I’ve found, is generally positive and supportive as long as you’re not trying to rip their Macs out of their hands.
“I still don’t know to this day what makes apple better”
And that’s all you really need to say to establish your credibility (or lack thereof). I use WinXP and MacOS X every day, so I can make the comparison between the two based on years of experience and not on what zealots (of any stripe) claim.
You can start your education by reading up on Fitts’ Law.
What makes Apple better is that it’s a designer product, sweated upon by people with immense attention to detail. From the cool-looking hot metal cases to the way the operating system behaves, immense thought has gone into every aspect of the hardware and software.
Certainly there are other things, such as the lack of viruses, that give Apple appeal. And certainly one thing that’s won over a lot of Linux users, including me, is that you can run great open source software like Ruby and mysql easily on the same machine you run commercial software like Photoshop and Final Cut.
But the essence of the experience is that Steve Jobs and crew care immensely about the whole user experience, so it’s like wearing clothes from Nordstrom instead of Wal-Mart. They’re both clothes, and they both cover the body, but Nordstrom’s cost triple the price, last twice as long and have the look and feel of genuine high quality.
If that appeals to you, by all means buy an Apple computer. You’ll love it.
If you don’t care about such things, Apple’s appeal is a complete mystery to you and Windows is precisely the operating system you deserve.
And finally, Apple prices are pretty reasonable for luxury products. Wal*Mart will sell you a shirt for $ 9.99; Nordstrom’s version is $45. A cheap house in Florida within a few blocks of the beach is $150,000. A house in Florida in that same general area but right on the ocean starts at $1,500,000 and zooms up to a dizzying $46 million.
So a crummy laptop is $499. A MacBook is $1,100. That’s pretty close to the average ratio between an okay product and an oustanding one.
From that viewpoint, Apple prices are fair. They are not cheap, but fair.
Hope that helps.
D
What I find totally amusing is the lack of knowledge that MS zealots constantly spew about other platforms. Most of them never using anything else but MS products. Want to deal with a bunch of assholes? Buy a Mac & wait & see how much crap you are going to take from Windows zealots. I use both & have been taking crap from IT guys to teen age dipshits (both of which wouldn’t know their ass from a whole in the ground) for choosing to buy a Mac. This has been going on for years. So please spare us the holier than thou crap…it goes both ways. Windows zealots have been spewing BS for years. Only most of the time they do it from a position of ignorance. Having never touched an Apple product in their lives. Please give a us all a break & grow up & make your own choices on what you think.
First of all, Microsoft can eat me too. Their products are only being used because people have to. So I’m def not a “zealot”. Second, I am kinda ignorant cause I don’t own a mac. Price is one yes (and don’t tell me I DESERVE to use Microsoft just ’cause I can’t afford one. Tell Steve to send me one in the mail and let me use the damn thing and then I’ll be a little less “ignorant”). My point is the ratio of dipshits buying Macs just ’cause it’s cool is a lot bigger then the people who can actually tell me what makes them, or the experience, better. She may be pretty, but it’s what she does in bed that’s going to win me over.
Okay, I’ll bite (I use Macs at home).
This guy is essentally like some alterna-indie-hipster guy who likes some obscure indie band before anybody has heard of them. Then the band “sells out” and gets a major label deal and suddenly the cheerleaders and jocks are talking about how great they are. The guys a bit miffed because he was a “true fan.”
Such posturing is totally juvenille, elitist and dumb, but some might extend those thoughts from highschool and bands to computers, cars, wine, towns, careers, and even companies.
“I am kinda ignorant cause I don’t own a mac.”
That’s still not a valid excuse. And to diss people who might buy something because “it’s cool” probably says more about you than it does about them. Ignorance can be remedied very cheaply, i.e. by doing some research (I already told you about Fitts’ Law), and last time I checked, Wikipedia was free. So rather than spout off with an attitude about “dipshits” maybe try proving that you aren’t one yourself – “it’s what she does in bed that’s going to win me over” is a line best left for those who like to hire hookers.
Quite the opposite. I’m a corporate 90’s rock whore and hates the word “sell out” cause it’s bull. Now, if I had owned a mac back in 94 and was mad now, then your comment would make sense. But I didn’t, and after 15 comments, no one wants to give me a real reason to go by a mac tomorrow other then telling me I’m ignorant and using words like “zealot” which are only ever used in geeky blog comment arguments. What’s funny is I just realized I have an older broken PowerBook sitting on my bedroom floor that I told a friend I’d fix over 4 months ago! I did try to find out why it freezes everytime it starts but alas found nothing. Anyone who can help me with PowerBook tech support speak up and make me a convert.
“Microsoft just blows but I have no choice but to use their products unitl I figure Linux and other options out.”
If you’re not ready to wipe your MS partition just yet and you’ve not yet figured out that a modern Intel-based Mac can also run Windows and Linux (using Parallels or VMWare Fusion), try one of the friendlier Linux distros, e.g. Ubuntu.
You do know that the column is called ‘Cult of Mac’ don’t you?
He’s paid to write about that very subject.
You didn’t specify which PowerBook model. I have three on the floor a few feet away from me, in various working states (and the oldest is from 1991). All were given to me by people who didn’t want them anymore because they don’t run MacOS X. I recently had to loan one out because my brother needed an older Mac model to reconfigure a 1995-era Apple laser printer that still functions perfectly for a research workgroup at a medical school. Post some details and we might be able to help.
Eric you come online and insult people for the vocabulary they use, follow it up with calling people geeks, and top it off by asking for help. It’s no wonder why you haven’t been able to find help with your Mac issue. People don’t generally reach out to help individuals who just got done insulting them based solely on some blog comments and their computing platform of preference.
There are a ton of resources for Mac tech support out there including Apple’s support site and macosxhints.com. From your little tirade all I have gathered is that you have a problem and have done the bare minimum to find an answer. You can always go to the Apple support site and post a detailed description of the problem including a description of where in the startup process it freezes and what appears on the screen, etc. Chances are there is someone out there that has experienced something similar and will be able to help you. I’ve worked with Mac OS X since the first release and it’s never taken me more than 24 hours to get an answer to my question in a forum online or find a solution that had previously been documented. If you’re claiming that you can’t find an answer, you just haven’t exhausted your resources.
I noticed that no-one has yet commented on the “excellent” prose in the original article (start with “that they’re own little club ” ) and continue on — which seems to prove the point ;-)
“Is there anyone else who finds the dichotomy between Apple’s advertising with the reality of their fanbase a little disturbing?”
This is known as an argument based on false premises. Last time I checked, Apple’s current advertising highlights differences between PCs and Macs. Meanwhile, the “Apple fanbase” now includes Les Vadasz (Intel employee #3 and an Intel co-founder), as well as Pat Gelsinger (VP of Intel’s Enterprise Systems Group), who in a recent interview likened his Mac epiphany to a “religious experience.” If I was more cynical, I’d say these folks have just been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid. But maybe they know about Fitts’ Law. :-)
Eric, I’m not sure what your issues are with the Mac. Most people I know are switchers who just got fed up with Windows, but simply didn’t have the time to learn Linux. You want to know what won us over? Stability. When I made the switch, OS X was slower than Windows, hands down. But because my G3 iBook didn’t crash, I was way more productive than I was with my Dell laptop (which went through 3 motherboards!).
Finally, Macs are competitively priced compared to namebrand Windows machines. Are they as expandable? No, but I find that the machines are well designed enough that they remain competitive for sometime.
In the end, all these machines are just tools. Use what you like. But don’t be so critical of a machine that you, by your own admission, don’t use.
Chill. Thanks Elise for providing with something concrete.
“after 15 comments, no one wants to give me a real reason to go by a mac tomorrow other then telling me I’m ignorant and using words like “zealot” which are only ever used in geeky blog comment arguments. What’s funny is I just realized I have an older broken PowerBook sitting on my bedroom floor that I told a friend I’d fix over 4 months ago! I did try to find out why it freezes everytime it starts but alas found nothing. Anyone who can help me with PowerBook tech support speak up and make me a convert.”
Yeah I got some great advice for you on that. Flip the PowerBook so that you’re looking at it in profile, and then rotate it so that one of its pointy ends is exposed. Expose rectum. Insert. Now go back to using Windows instead of dragging your sorry entitled-feeling presumptuous ass over into our camp.
So tell me: did I pass your little test?
I have to disagree with you on this one Tony. I’ve worked with a lot of Apple users and very few of them are exclusionary. In fact, if there is ever a conversation about whether to with PC or Mac, Mac users will try very hard to get you within the fold.
This blogger does not speak for Mac users and if you find more like him, then they’re not really part of our cult. Our cult likes newbs.
Oh, and Apple, as a computer company, is far from world dominance. I believe market share is still way below 10% across the entire planet.
I have to agree with those who say that the real Mac community are the many, many people who happily take the time to help new users out and otherwise bring people into the fold. Post a problem on the Apple support forums or any number of Mac sites and you will get a lot of really helpful replies. These are the people doing Macs a good service.
Then you have the people who smugly look upon anyone who hasn’t been a Mac user for 10+ years. Those people are just asses, and you’ll find them in *any* community or group, because they take their pride not from being part of a large community, but in seeing themselves as part of a small, insular, and exclusive one comprised only of the true believers. They’re the ones who cry “sell out,” as Webomatica noted above.
There are a lot of Mac users calling out the Wired author on his thesis, by the way.
I have been using both macs and PCs for years and my opinion is that Macs do offer better value for you money.
I have a G5 Mac for about 4 years and I have never had to re-install the OS, never have any viruses, and I don’t remember it ever had a system crash. It pretty much just work, great for photoshop, video editing, MS office, internet, etc. Any software that I need is available for the Mac.
I also have had a PC since the 486 days. I must have built at least 20 pcs for friends and families. Generally, PC requires a lot more maintanance. You can spend a lot of time optimizing, running antivirus software, spam, ect, that you will never have to do on a Mac. My brother who is a gamer, bought 3 PCs in the last 2 years. We had to re-install the software seems like avery 6 months because of virus or spam that slow the system down to a craw. It can take hours and sometimes days for this, looking for drivers, updates, system conflicts, ect. I’ve come to hate messing with all that stuff. Over time, I do find that Macs are a pleasure to use, PC is just a computer you use when you need it. I guess its hard for some people to understand, its like driving a Lexus and driving a truck for 5 years. Its the user experience of the whole package, not because of the status symble. I’ll try to sum up some of the advantages and disavantages.
Macs
-I think Macs are generally better for most users. If you want to use the computer for internet, pay bills, and run application mostly problem free. You pay a little more and save a lot of time from not have much problems to deal with.
-Macs comes with most software you need. You don’t need to buy extras
-Macs comes with standard hard ware that you generally have to pay extra from other vendors, such as camera, wi fi card, etc.
-You don’t need spam or virus software. I think this is the biggest advantage, not have to deal with this pest.
-Over all Better user experience.
-Mac OS
-Runs Windows. Its essentially a PC that can run Mac OS. ;-)
-Plenty of software available that you would want to use, less junk software.
-Mac are easier to learn and use, therefor are better for people who novice.
But Macs are not for everyone.
PC
-A little cheaper than Macs even though Macs have come down on prices over the years.
-Recommend for people who likes to build their computer, don’t mind spending a little extra effort and time on maintenance and optimizing the computer. You have a huge selection of upgrade and ad-on options as far as hardware. I use an older pc for my home security system because there is no DVR hardware and security camera software for Mac.
-If you are a computer gamer, PCs is better fitted for you.
-If you need to use certain business software that may not be available for the mac.
-If you are a Computer science student, A PC is better for you.
Tony,
I think you really missed the point of the Wired article. Most long time Mac users, and by that I mean computer users and not iPod users, had nowhere to go but the local MUG or in later years, on-line help forums. Sales staff or even tech-staff in big retail chain computer stores rarely gave Mac users the time of day. When Apple began to open their retail outlets, the Genius bar was a place for Mac users to go for free tech support and helpful advise. Mac users conglomerated around the genius bars and found solace that their problems and concerns were addressed quickly and freely by an experienced staff who didn’t treat them like ‘goof balls’ for buying a Mac in the first place.
Have you tried getting into a genius bar lately? You have to sign in and unless you arrive right when the store opens, you could be waiting for 3-4+ hours. And that’s on a week day. And the reason for the long lines is not other Mac users with loads of problems. It’s because of a bunch of ‘kids’ with iPods asking the most basic of questions. It’s frustrating and annoying for many loyal Apple fans to see their ‘computer’ company slowing turning into an electronics company, while long time users of their core products are forgotten.
“If you are a Computer science student, A PC is better for you.”
It depends on what your focus is, but this is really not true for the majority of cases. (Like anything above an introductory or ‘CS for biz students’ credit.) In the majority of cases you want a UNIX-compatible OS, and that is not Windows. Pretty much anything else today qualifies, however.
@Mac snob
I take that back, since Macs can run windows, they are a good option for CIS students. The only downside is you have to pay extra for the Windows OS. When I went to college, before the intel switch, you pretty much need a PC since almost all of the Programming and CIS classes requires software that runs on windows, unless you are in graphic design.
I’ve converted 4 people to the mac side in the past year to friends and co-worker. These are the people who are a little afraid of computers and just want to surf the net. They are all very happy and love their Macs. But I still recommend PC for a lot of my friends because they are hardcore gamers.
“If you are a Computer science student, A PC is better for you.”
Penn State’s Department of Computer Science and Engineering gives all of their grad students Mac laptops (http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/pennstate/). Research and work that was previously hammered out in Engineering labs for hours on end is now done by the grad students whenever and wherever they want to work.
It still burns me to hear people rattle off cliches about what a Mac is better for and what a PC is better for. Truth be told now that Macs run Intel processors and there is Boot Camp and Parallels and probably a half dozen more applications in development which will allow Windows applications to run on a Mac (either in full OS emulation or as standalone apps), there is technically nothing a PC is better at. As these apps get better the line between Windows and OS X will begin to blur. I have no doubt that at some point in time Windows games will eventually run flawlessly in OS X, so using gaming as an excuse for buying a PC is eventually going to fall short as well.
The advantage of running Windows right now is solely the price. When it’s bundled with your run of the mill low-end PC you can get a machine that meets your needs on even the most stringent of budgets. That same machine will most likely not survive an upgrade to the next release of Windows. What you get with a Mac (even on the low end) is a machine that is going to be able to run the newest OS released by Apple for an indefinite amount of time. There are Beige Box Macs that are running various flavors of OS X without any problems and they came out in the mid to late 1990s. With a Mac you will also get a machine that retains its value over an extended period of time simply because it is possible to put a modern OS on it several years after it was purchased. You also get the benefit of an OS that was designed specifically for the hardware it is running on. Combine that with a system that will require much less maintenance than I’ve personally experienced with any flavor of Windows or Linux and you’ve got a product that will enable you to be more productive over a longer period of time.
the difference between a mac and a windows.
well its sort of like the difference between a camaro and a corvette.
Both will get you from point a to b very fast. Underneath their skin their motors are essentially identical(pushrod V8). The difference however is two fold.
1. Refinement- although a corvette is not a precise german version of automotive und schteel…it certainly has a much better wieght ratio, suspension and “feel” than a camaro.
–macs can tweak both their hardware as they will since they have essentially a closed system. This allows a level of refinement that is unattainable to PC’s.
2. Marketing- camaros are an also ran… the corvette is “the” aspirational sportscar of the american public(blue and even some white collar). Not so expensive as to be out of reach…but pricey enough so that not every schmo can afford one.
–Apple has perfected the marketing of consumer electronics..and has changed the face of all product marketing. Take a look at the decreased time from concept to production in the automarket…a direct result of Apples success.
BTW…I hate apple fanboys, the ipod and the iphone. The DRM letter from Jobs was as blatant a corporate snowjob as I have ever seen and I think that the iphone will be buggy and tarnish apples record.
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