A-List Types Refuse To Acknowledge Blogging’s Blue Collar Class
by Tony Hung on February 2, 2007
So PayPerPost has once again made headlines this week with Jeff Jarvis getting on his high horse about their wickedness, and Jason Calacanis carrying the torch high about how its pissing in the pond that he made. Or something like that.
My opinion is that Mat Ingram has the right of it.
When did the tone of the conversation suddenly get so sanctimonius?
Guys, its *blogging*. Of course I love of it too. Its great fun. You get to meet lots of nice people. And *sure* some people like reading blogs because of its “transparency” and “authenticity”, as an escape from everything opaque and fake.
But with the rhetoric once again reaching shrill levels (which, ironically only brings more attention to PayPerPost), there’s one thing that Jeff Jarvis, Jason Calacanis, or any other A-list blogger fails to recognize. And that’s a whole other class of bloggers who blog for a very different reason that other bloggers blog.
I refer to them as the blue-collar class of bloggers.
They’re not out their writing and contributing so that they can look smart and feel good about themselves when they get dugg. They’re out there writing and blogging to make a few sheckels for themselves and their families. Some are stay at home moms. Others are students. Others are individuals who are just trying to make a few ends meet. Others are just curious.
They’re the guys who are trying to optimize their Adsense pages, learning about arbitrage, and who read Problogger for helpful hints on making a few bucks.
They’re blogging for very different reasons than other bloggers — and they’re not ashamed to say so.
The difference between them an A-list bloggers who make sacks of cash is that they don’t have the connections, notoriety, or capital to create an A-list blog off the bat. I’m not taking anything away from bloggers who built something out of nothing; but clearly many, if not all, A-list types who make four (or five) figures a month from their ad campaigns have brought something special to the table that is not available to many people.
Blue collar bloggers are just trying to make do with what they’ve got, and for them, PayPerPost is one of those things that helps fill that void.
I can get as sanctimonius as the next blogger when it comes to how important it is to try and keep the blogosphere clear of nonsense, rabble, and polluting crap. On the other hand, I also know how futile it is, sometimes, when you’re battling a growing trend in the blogging industry.
And for individuals who are meant to have the foresight and insight to be “great” bloggers, its funny how they’re all missing the point on this. And I’ve said it a bunch of times before.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t like PayPerPost. And it doesn’t matter if you think its “polluting” the blogosphere. Its found a home and its taken root amongst a select class of bloggers. They now have a disclosure policy. Even if you gnash your teeth and bash your chest, it still won’t matter, because there are bloggers who will happily accept whatever they can out of their efforts.
And as long as some bloggers do, its not going away.
Now, you can debate how effective PayPerPost campaigns are for marketers; you can debate how tasteful they are; and you can debate which pay per post method works best. But it does nothing to the conversation to demean this trend, because it shows not only shows how shortsighted you are about the trend — but how little you think of folk trying to make a few extra bucks in a way that is now transparent.
46 comments
[...] The Chorus of Reason: Mathew Ingram, Tony Hung, Scott Karp (at the Blog Herald), Jason Kaneshiro (Webomatica), Steven Hodson (Winextra.com), Larry Dignan (ZDNet), and Jeneane Sessum. [...]
by When Knights of the Realm Climb on Their High Horses » odd time signatures on February 2, 2007 at 4:56 am. #
Not that I’d ever do it myself, I agree with you. There are a lot of people passionate about blogging but without enough juice to earn a living blogging or monetize a so so blog.
There’s probably a bigger opportunity for providing a monetization service other than this review model. I think paid reviews will eventually kill off itself.
by baron on February 2, 2007 at 5:53 am. #
I think you’ve got the key line right here: “And as long as some bloggers do, its not going away”. It’s like DRM – as long as record companies try to protect their content, users will try to circumvent it. There needs to be a different solution.
The same holds true with the PayPerPost type model. As long as there’s someone around willing to pay bloggers for writing content, it will happen. All preaching in the world won’t stop it. Given that’s the case, I think mandatory disclosure is the best solution. If someone writes a review of a product or service, then clearly states “I was paid to write this”, I don’t see a problem (ethics of a perfect blogosphere aside). Ultimately, the review of any other non-paid blogger on the same topic will carry more wait anyway.
by OZaC on February 2, 2007 at 10:09 am. #
Once again a good article with spot-on arguments, tony.
payperpost remains being wrong though :)
by marcel weiss on February 2, 2007 at 10:43 am. #
Interesting, I wrote a shorter commentary on PayPerPost (Link opens in new window) this week too. I’m glad to see that not everyone hates PayPerPost and how it can be utilized by some to help supplement blogging income.
Good article!
by Koby on February 2, 2007 at 11:52 am. #
Sorry, I just tested my comment and the link does not open in a new window even though i told it too.
by Koby on February 2, 2007 at 11:53 am. #
Well goodness it sure is refreshing to see something in favor of what we’re doing here at PayPerPost! I really like your perspective, and of course we will looking forward to your continued support.
by Ashley @ PayPerPost on February 2, 2007 at 2:08 pm. #
Ashley,
Just so we’re clear — I don’t actually support anyone. But what I do recognize that closing your eyes and praying that PPP doesn’t exist isn’t going to work for anything.
Might as well recognize the trend and understand it, I say.
Tony.
by Tony on February 2, 2007 at 4:59 pm. #
How about the Aspiring A-listers!?
by Gary on February 2, 2007 at 6:34 pm. #
I too, would like to keep the blogosphere clean from sludge and slime. But I’d like to watch the PayPerPost experiment to see where it goes. I see nothing wrong with it at the moment. But where there’s a good idea and money, there’s often abuse. Let’s just hope that if things turn sour, that we can shut it down just as quickly as we’ve helped build it.
by Dawud Miracle on February 3, 2007 at 10:05 am. #
I take sort of a middle position here. While I don’t begrudge the blue collars from trying to squeak out a living in the online blog-mines, I’m fearful that services like PayPerPost will help to lower the whole of the blogosphere’s credibility. Like it or not, “blogs” as a whole have a reputation (good, bad, and ugly in the mind of the general public) and if web surfers and searchers sense that paid services have sullied the bloggy waters (via paying writers to write paid editorial without clear disclosure), that can have adverse reaction in terms of traffic, page rank, and the overall health of the blogosphere.
So I don’t know if that’s sanctimonious or not, but it’s just one blogger’s opinion!
by Eric Berlin on February 3, 2007 at 5:26 pm. #
As usual – a slightly different take on a topic from you – good job noting the “class warfare” angle. As media slowly goes mainstream it’s inevitable. I’m sure the original makers of television would be shocked to see what’s on it these days! But that this is happening to blog means it’s finding mainstream adoption.
by Webomatica on February 3, 2007 at 5:37 pm. #
[...] I wrote about it yesterday as well — but let’s face it. Its OK for A-list bloggers to monetize their blogging relationships by being paid to talk at conferences, or merely to be paid for their blogging activities as a function of their influence … [...]
by Deep Jive Interests » Bloggers Need To Get Over Themselves And “The Impossible Standard” on February 4, 2007 at 10:25 am. #
[...] Honoring the Hard Working Blue Collar Bloggers While a lot of people rant on about the A-List and Z-List of bloggers, Tony Hung of Deep Jive Interests offers “A List Types Refuse to Acknowledge Blogging’s Blue Collar Class”: But with the rhetoric once again reaching shrill levels, …there’s one thing that Jeff Jarvis, Jason Calacanis, or any other A-list blogger fails to recognize. And that’s a whole other class of bloggers who blog for a very different reason that other bloggers blog. [...]
by Honoring the Hard Working Blue Collar Bloggers « Lorelle on WordPress on March 17, 2007 at 9:08 am. #
[...] In any case, I followed this series of posts this morning, starting with Honoring the Hard Working Blue Collar Bloggers by Lorelle. Lorelle links to a discussion of Payperpost at Deep Jive Interests. A notable and praiseworthy element of both posts is its recognition of the folks they are calling “blue-collar workers” — which I take to be everyone but those who think they know better than the rest of us what this medium should be used for. In other words, most of us. See also the precise characterization of the underlying intellectual issues on Seth Finklestein’s Infothought. Seth makes some very good points. [...]
by afewgoodpens.com » Blog Archive » Blogging and Economics on March 17, 2007 at 11:31 am. #
What a joke… a couple of years ago Scoble, Jarvis, and I were the blue collar bloggers! We were hustling trying to get our vocies heard and a couple of years later–after blogging daily/hourly–the supposed “A List” got some traction and attention.
Here is a tip: THEY EARNED IT!!! They busted their butts for years blogging in an intelligent way. They were not given their seats at the table–they took them!
There is no “A List” — it’s a myth.
There are people who blog every day, have something intelligent to say, and who get linked to more than the folks that are some combination of a) new, b) have little to say, and c)are not hustling.
If you want to be part of the A List you can do it in
by Jason on March 17, 2007 at 12:51 pm. #
If you want to be part of the A List you can do it in
by Jason on March 17, 2007 at 12:52 pm. #
Jason,
You know what’s a joke? Being so far removed from ordinary bloggers that you don’t think there is an “A-list”.
Listen, I’m not disparaging the fact that you, Scoble, Jarvis (and a host of others) are not hardworking. Far from it.
But there are intangibles that you all bring to the table that most people don’t have; and I think it speaks to the fact that even though you guys do have the credentials (Jarvis), the connections (Scoble), or the publicity/notoriety (you — from Weblogs) that you *still* have to work so hard says something.
Blogging is damn hard work, and harder still when you have kids to feed and are working lousy hours at work — and you don’t have the connections, notoriety or credentials to fuel your blogs success.
And let’s not discount it. When you have the ability to meet people most people don’t; when you have the inside track before most people do; and when you are actually *creating* news as most of us *can’t*, that’s what really separates “A-listers” from the rest of us.
I’ve come a long way in blogging, but I’m not blind to the fact that the vast majority of bloggers — even those who bring something new, refreshing, and regular to the table — may find barriers to blogging success in spite of hard work.
I’d like to believe in the democracy of blogging, but the fact is that there are certain advantages that some bloggers have that others don’t. Not having them doesn’t mean you can’t be an A-lister, but I have yet to find one that didn’t have any.
The “A-list” exists, and it exists naturally. Do I think some of them “call it in”? Sure. But some of them also continue to blog just as hard as they do when they first started.
But to think that a natural stratification doesn’t exist — or if it does, is easy to penetrate if you “are good and work hard” — is quite frankly, blind and a little arrogant.
[Yes, I am referring to your "how-to be an A-list recipe" with regards to Techmeme].
[And yes, I'm also referring to 2007, not 1997, or even 2002 when there were a tenth (hundredth? thousandth?) as many blogs competing]
Cheers
tony.
by Tony on March 17, 2007 at 2:09 pm. #
I get the feeling (though I could be wrong) that Jason reacted more to the title of this post rather than the substance, which is sympathetic to those who would contract themselves with PPP with the idea of honestly taking on writing assignments for whatever wage.
So there are several issues here, as I see it:
* Is there an A List and an Everyone Else List?
Yeah, I think there is, due to a consensus of factors mentioned by both Tony and Jason: hard work, hustling, great ideas, consistency, original reporting etc. AND there are some natural advantages that some current A Listers used and use to their advantage, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
* Are there barriers to reaching the A List?
There are, and I think there are probably more now than ever before. It’s still possible but I think doing all the right things (busting one’s ass, etc.) doesn’t necessarily get you over the top in 2007.
* Is it okay for bloggers to sign up with PPP?
(This in my view was what the original post was about). I’m not a fan of PPP, think it’s dangerous to the credibility of the blogosphere, but if people want to sign up and be super transparent about the practice, I don’t have a problem with it.
>>>
I would humbly add one more issue to the equation:
* What does being an A Lister mean?
Is it being popular in terms of traffic? Influential in terms of having the ability to affect and direct the blogospheric conversation? Does it mean attaining the notoriety to grab speaking engagements and keynote addresses and such? Or is it the ability to flat-out make money from blogging?
by Eric Berlin on March 17, 2007 at 2:24 pm. #
[...] All of this is coming in response to an article on DeepJive Interests on “blue collar bloggers” about those poor souls who have to sell their souls to PayPerPost to make a living. According to DJI, They’re not out their writing and contributing so that they can look smart and feel good about themselves when they get dugg. They’re out there writing and blogging to make a few sheckels for themselves and their families. Some are stay at home moms. Others are students. Others are individuals who are just trying to make a few ends meet. Others are just curious. [...]
by Blue Collar Bloggers? | The Last Podcast on March 17, 2007 at 2:24 pm. #
You know, the people who bitch the most about hating Walmart are the people who can afford NOT to shop there.
I feel a rant coming. Good stuff Tony. Jason, ah, well, I’ll save it for my blog post.
by Jim Kukral on March 17, 2007 at 5:52 pm. #
[...] The backstory: Tony says the a-listers refuse to acknowledge the ‘blue-collar bloggers’. Calacanis, an a-lister target, says the a-list doesn’t exist. [...]
by The Blogging A-List Is The Matrix, It Does, & Doesn’t Exist | Jim Kukral Online Marketing Consulting 1-888-BLOG-BIZ on March 17, 2007 at 7:28 pm. #
[...] Posted by Ron Coleman on March 17th, 2007 Jason Calacanis rejects the view that Pay Per Post is a “necessary evil” for those who can’t hope to attract ad dollars to their blogs because they believe there’s no longer opportunity to break through to the “A-List” of bloggers: The PayPerIdiots are trying to make their DECEPTIVE service into a class war–so, so obvious guys. There is a reason why you guys came up with such a dumb service, and your arguments prove exactly how unintelligent you are. It’s ***not*** a class war, it’s an ***integrity*** war. If you want to have no integrity do covert marketing with PayPerPost, if you want to have integrity don’t–but let’s not make this about the “haves and have nots”–that’s just dumb. [...]
by Pay Per Post -- is it all about quality? « Likelihood of Success on March 17, 2007 at 9:05 pm. #
[...] It started with Jason commenting first on a month old post by Tony about the A-List and the blue-collar class of bloggers and then went on to write a whole post about (guess he musta really got riled up). Tony’s original point was to question the self-righteousness of the blogging elite against people who use PayPerPost (make money from posting reviews). In the post he basically stated that there was indeed a class separation in the blogging world – specifically the tech bloggers – between those in the A-List (Technorati link rating) and the rest of the tech blogging world; or as he called it “the blue-collar class of bloggers”. [...]
by It must be the weekend - another blogger dustup in the works | WinExtra on March 17, 2007 at 11:11 pm. #
[...] Jason Calacanis decided to weigh in on a post I did a few months ago, wherein I took exception to the shrill tone of the anti-PPP rhetoric. I also ranted a little about how A-list bloggers didn’t “get” blue-collar blogging types [which got picked up by Lorelle] I make it a habit of replying back on my blog whenever possible, and comments on my blog or no exception. [...]
by Deep Jive Interests » Yes, Mr. Calacanis, The A-List Exists. No, Its Not Easy To Break Into (If You Wanted To). on March 17, 2007 at 11:58 pm. #
All PPP is offering is a really lousy, time-consuming, unrewarding business model for their users. Lucky them.
What some marketing lightweights fail to understand is, you probably sell more effectively WITH disclosure than without it. Because disclosing takes cajones. And people generally prefer buying from people with cajones, than people without cajones.
by hugh macleod on March 18, 2007 at 10:59 am. #
[...] This entire argument seems to gravitate around the notion of blogging as a way to make money. In fact, in the post that started this recent discussion, the author defines two types of bloggers: the ones who make “sacks of cash” and blog for notoriety or to make themselves feel good… and the ones who struggle to make a few dollars here and there so that they can feed a family. [...]
by Reader Meet Author » Blog Archive » A-List Bloggers, PayPerPost, and Other Blogosphere Observations on March 18, 2007 at 1:48 pm. #
[...] If you’re new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed or email feed. Thanks for visiting!I don’t know if Tony Hung did it on purpose or not but he got himself some real attention by baiting Jason Calacanis to respond to Tony’s blue collar blogging post. Good for him for creating some buzz around an issue that may or may not have ever existed. Tony set up the bait and Jason bit it. [...]
by Calacanis Offers A Few Nuggets Of Advice on March 18, 2007 at 11:22 pm. #
[...] This issue basically cropped up after Tony criticized those who were vocal against PayPerPost-type schemes for not recognizing the existence of the so-called blue collar bloggers–those of us who don’t have the connections, notoriety, nor capital to launch, run, and earn from a popular blog. Blue collar bloggers, according to Tony, make do with whatever monetization mechanisms are available to them, and pay per post schemes are among the most accessible and easiest way to earn. [...]
by Is There An A-List? The Debate Goes On at The Blog Herald on March 19, 2007 at 2:42 pm. #
[...] But then again to many—especially those who are just starting to enjoy the benefits of monetization—this is the only viable way to earn a few bucks off the blogosphere. Some think blogging for money this way is akin to prostituting oneself. But some think that the blogosphere should give credence to blue-collar blogging. [...]
by So I Signed Up For ReviewMe. Have I Just Sold My Soul? » The J Spot on March 19, 2007 at 3:13 pm. #
[...] It’s been interesting to see how PayPerPost has gotten a bad knock while other blog advertisements haven’t, but what will the blogosphere think about games generating income on their blogs? [...]
by Don’t Read Our Blogs - Play Games on Our Blogs at The Blog Herald on March 20, 2007 at 1:49 pm. #
[...] By the way, wasn’t the whole discussion started by some people saying that even though many bloggers work hard, they never quite make it? Loren Feldman and Jason both fall for the Great American Myth: Just work hard and you will make it. Sadly, it doesn’t work that way. It takes a lot more than just hard work to succeed in anything. [...]
by Final Word on the "A-List" - Or is It? | The Last Podcast on March 22, 2007 at 3:10 pm. #
[...] Honoring the Hard Working Blue Collar Blogger got a lot of attention because the referenced post by Tony Hung of Deep Jive Interests, “A List Types Refuse to Acknowledge Blogging’s Blue Collar Class”, took a stance on PayPerPost. I didn’t. I just loved the reference “blue collar blogger” and considered myself one. A hard working blogger into it for the blogging, and whatever dribble of bucks comes our way, and not into it for the celebrity. A few picked it up and ran with it, turning it into a rage against bloggers who blog for money through PayPerPost (PPP). [...]
by Weekly Digest: Introduction, ProBlogger, Blue Collar Bloggers, PayPerPost, and More « Lorelle on WordPress on March 24, 2007 at 10:41 am. #
[...] Much has been said over the past years, and most recently as well, about the so-called blogging a-list. Let’s not get into a debate about whether or not the a-list exists, you decide for yourself, it doesn’t matter. The point I’m trying to make to you today is that there are super successful bloggers and then there is everyone else, who BlogKits was built for, and that either one can make money blogging. [...]
by BlogKits - Helping Bloggers Make Money » You Don’t Have To Be On The Blogging A-list To Make Money Blogging on March 27, 2007 at 2:31 pm. #
[...] It’s a clever strategy on the part of PayPerPost: throw out enough money in enough different ways and all of the sudden everyone is complicit in its activities. Not that its activities are implicitly or necessarily ill-intentioned. As I just commented over at a Deep Jive Interests piece that defends the right of “blue collar” bloggers from making a living: [...]
by Is PayPerPost Trying to Outflank the Blogosphere’s Defenses? ¦ Online Media Cultist on March 29, 2007 at 11:40 pm. #
[...] you are paid to write about something, isn’t that like being a sell-out? Tony Hung believes that there’s nothing wrong with getting paid to blog or to review stuff, and it’s a fact that there are “blue collar” bloggers out there who don’t [...]
by Links Are Recommendations » Jack Of All Blogs on April 6, 2007 at 8:08 pm. #
[...] David Drake wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptBut with the rhetoric once again reaching shrill levels (which, ironically only brings more attention to PayPerPost), there’s one thing that Jeff Jarvis, Jason Calacanis, or any other A-list blogger fails to recognize. … [...]
by list » A-List Types Refuse To Acknowledge Blogging’s Blue Collar Class on April 7, 2007 at 5:27 pm. #
[...] ads or something; while “D-list blogs” are none of these things. Others disagree. (Read 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and [...]
by What makes an A-list blogger? : Big Bucks Blogger on June 13, 2007 at 7:01 pm. #
[...] Calacanis’s feeling that the blogosphere has no A-list, which in itself was a response to Tony Hung’s post A-List Types Refuse To Acknowledge Blogging’s Blue Collar Class. As a lowly member of the blogging B and C list (and in defense of the blogging D through Z list [...]
by Two Powerful Link Experiences : The Blog Herald on July 11, 2007 at 5:30 am. #
[...] Additional Reading: Duncan Riley, Like On the Wicked Stage, Mockriot, Writing Home, CrunchNotes, Infothought, Just Shelly, Deep Jive Interests [...]
by Scoble and PayPerPost: Disclosure Is Healthy » Webomatica - Technology and Entertainment Digest on September 22, 2007 at 1:30 pm. #
[...] Jason Calacanis, with one comment at Deep Jive Interests (and two posts on his blog) set forth a chain reaction of events that was mesmerizing to watch. [...]
by Blogging Is Bizarre: Calacanis, Hung, Birdwatching » Webomatica - Technology and Entertainment Digest on September 22, 2007 at 1:58 pm. #
[...] I feel the need to chime in on this, even though it’s a rather odd subject: Whether a blogging “A-List” exists and whether there is some conspiracy to keep lesser bloggers in the doldrums. You might consider the former “blue collar” class bloggers. [...]
by Class Warfare And The Blogging A List » Webomatica - Technology and Entertainment Digest on September 22, 2007 at 2:28 pm. #
[...] more hopefully neutral about it now. If one can be hopefully neutral about anything. The writer of Deep Jive Interests aptly points out that many of the people who take advantage of services like PayPerPost are blue [...]
by PayPerPost - Are You Serious?? « Freehold 2 on December 17, 2007 at 11:28 pm. #
[...] started with Jason commenting first on a month old post by Tony about the A-List and the blue-collar class of bloggers and then went on to write a whole [...]
by It must be the weekend - another blogger dustup in the works — Shooting at Bubbles on May 30, 2009 at 12:57 am. #
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